In one sense, you're right. It isn't fair to people who can't log in late. I tried the "invisible for a day" solution and it just caused all kinds of problems.
For example, a country lands, builds a base, builds turrets, and builds all sorts of new units. An enemy sees the landing, so he targets the truck. It's impossible to target anything else, so (a) your air attacks will probably be shot down by units you can't see, and (b) you are just firing at a spot they may be at even though you don't know if you'll be going first or second. Basically, it becomes impossible to stop someone from landing and spreading like wildfire.
It frustrates me that there's a time advantage, but I haven't thought of a solution for it that that always keeps the game enjoyable. If anyone has an idea, I'm definitely open to suggestions.
I'm not sure why we have to resort to such complicated solutions.
Why don't we just change the cycle time to Midnight EST. That still gives West coast 9-5'ers time to drive home, hug the kids, maybe have dinner and probably watch a show before they gotta login to make important moves.
I mean, I know we're always gonna have someone who has a last-minute advantage, but at least more people will have a chance if it's not at some ungodly hour.
I'd even venture to say that anything past midnight is always gonna be a conflict point for anyone who has a woman. lol
Johnny Said: "In one sense, you're right. It isn't fair to people who can't log in late. I tried the "invisible for a day" solution and it just caused all kinds of problems.
For example, a country lands, builds a base, builds turrets, and builds all sorts of new units. An enemy sees the landing, so he targets the truck. It's impossible to target anything else, so (a) your air attacks will probably be shot down by units you can't see, and (b) you are just firing at a spot they may be at even though you don't know if you'll be going first or second. Basically, it becomes impossible to stop someone from landing and spreading like wildfire.
It frustrates me that there's a time advantage, but I haven't thought of a solution for it that that always keeps the game enjoyable. If anyone has an idea, I'm definitely open to suggestions." ----------
This is why no invisible units.
The point is that whoever logs in first is ALREADY playing with invisible units. E.g. on Iguano when I was fighting Emeketos on the long middle island, I would log in, send 3-4 tanks to take a base, target the 2-3 units I could see that were in range of my bases, and be done. I would log in the next day and see that my airstrike had died pre-attack, my base was taken by invisible tanks, my tanks were destroyed by invisible infantry, and the base I attacked had been sold.
Thus, I repeat myself. Roughly half of us are already playing against invisible units. All I'm asking in the short-term is for the other half to man-up and play by the same effective rules-set that others must play by. You might not like it, but consider how you could feel if the situation were reversed and you were the one who had to unilaterally fight against invisible units.
Funny you brought this up. I was thinking the same thing.
The "invisible units" idea would be best in my opinion too.
I'll have to pull an Iguano example too: I usually play this game around 9:00 MST, which is good but not the best. You (LCCX) had a yellow island by the island I took from GH. I sent a CT to that island and the next day I logged on to see that your "invisible battleships" had appeared and killed my transport. Also when you made landing on my island, all I saw was that your CT had "just appeared" there because I did not have the opportunity to see it in a transport sitting in the sea and send jets to take it out. This happened because you logged on after me in both situations (not to blame you, because logging on later is a good strategy).
I am in favor of the "invisible units" idea because, in reality, all the current system does now is benefit only those that log on after their enemies while those that log on before DO have to worry about "invisible units". For those that log on earlier, the "invisible units" idea would not really change anything at all for them (except make it so their enemies don't take advantage of them). My example also shows that what Johnny wants to avoid with island landings still already happens to half of us anyways.
I am an all day player. I make moves at 7 am, noon, and between 8-10 pm. Sometimes later, but not usually.
And I have been successful on most maps that I have played. Not dominant, but I can usually survive for a while.
And I hate invisible units. In 2 different maps I was pushed on my heels by an opponent because I could not use air support. Here is the scenario that kicked my butt:
Day 1 3:00 am: Player A lands a CT.
Day2 4:00 am: Player A build base. Build units (invisible). Sets moves
Day2 7:00 am: Player B signs in. Sees base and CT. Targets base and CT with jets/missiles.
Day 3 7:00am Player B signs in. Sees that base is intact. CT is intact. They have lost X number of sectors and finally sees the units he tried to shoot over. And has to assume that Player A has already reinforced his position.
It took a rollback to visible units and a concentrated ground assault to finally repel the landing.
Invisible units only give the "cycle" player an additional advantage. Once a landing has occurred, it is nearly impossible to stop them.
There is no perfect solution. Some player somewhere will always have a time advantage.
The point is that whoever logs in first is ALREADY playing with invisible units. E.g. on Iguano when I was fighting Emeketos on the long middle island, I would log in, send 3-4 tanks to take a base, target the 2-3 units I could see that were in range of my bases, and be done. I would log in the next day and see that my airstrike had died pre-attack, my base was taken by invisible tanks, my tanks were destroyed by invisible infantry, and the base I attacked had been sold.
Thus, I repeat myself. Roughly half of us are already playing against invisible units. All I'm asking in the short-term is for the other half to man-up and play by the same effective rules-set that others must play by. You might not like it, but consider how you could feel if the situation were reversed and you were the one who had to unilaterally fight against invisible units.
They are not invisible because they have not been placed yet, yes I know what you're getting at, but still.
And yes, I play against people who place after me, so I know what it's like. I deal with it, just like everyone else. Besides, Johnny already said it causes more problems than it's worth.
Changing the cycle to be earlier would be determinant for me and probably others -- regardless of what time we as a collective decide on, some people are always going to be able to do their thing before the cycle.
That said, what if we played with that idea with new worlds? The next new world to be released would be a midnight cycle. The world after that is an afternoon cycle. The world after is a 6pm cycle. The one after is a 6am cycle. The next, 3am. Then 3pm. I'm thinking you get the pattern.
That way, not any worlds share the same cycle, and those who like the tactic of playing before cycles could stick to certain worlds that fit their schedules -- and anyone who doesn't really care about what time the cycle is can play any world of their choosing.
I'll have to pull an Iguano example too: I usually play this game around 9:00 MST, which is good but not the best. You (LCCX) had a yellow island by the island I took from GH. I sent a CT to that island and the next day I logged on to see that your "invisible battleships" had appeared and killed my transport. Also when you made landing on my island, all I saw was that your CT had "just appeared" there because I did not have the opportunity to see it in a transport sitting in the sea and send jets to take it out. This happened because you logged on after me in both situations (not to blame you, because logging on later is a good strategy).
My beef with it is that logging on later in the day is not a "strategy", it just is. Some people log in earlier and some people log in later. Why should the people who log in later be unilaterally penalized?
They are not invisible because they have not been placed yet, yes I know what you're getting at, but still.
And yes, I play against people who place after me, so I know what it's like. I deal with it, just like everyone else. Besides, Johnny already said it causes more problems than it's worth.
I could have misread the various related threads, but the only problems that I read above were that players complained about it. True, in a product whose sole selling point is "being fun", complaints from users is pretty bad. But, nonetheless, I'd vote that everyone have to deal with "invisible" units.
I'll agree that "invisible" might not be the perfect word to describe what is going on, but in its use above and on other threads is exactly what is happening to the earlier-commanding players -- they cannot see any units which will be placed today before their unit commands are executed.
